This section of the library shall be dedicated to commentaries on the Hubermanlab podcast. Included below is not a summary of the episode (I’ll leave that for you to check out), but rather my comments on the episode in terms of psychology, health, and human behavior. Whenever possible, I draw connections to autism as well. Most of my comments originally appear on Twitter/X, so be sure to follow on there.
Dr. Robert Lustig: How Sugar & Processed Foods Impact Your Health
One of my larger takeaways was a discussion about personal responsibility, insofar as behavior change is concerned, because, as Dr. Huberman mentioned, we can go to Capitol Hill, we can go advocate for change, but is it really going to happen? Big Food has them in their pockets… but what about social behavior change?
It was brought up that previously used smoking behavior change methods that relied upon showing children damaged livers and damaged lungs didn’t work. Funny, because I remember those vividly, but I think the fact that I had an alcoholic father to witness resulted in an abhorrence for alcohol in my case. I actually still remember a commercial in which a previous smoker had a hole in their neck, and they were singing a song about people not always dying from tobacco, but that sometimes they get their tongues snipped out. Pretty traumatizing. I remember the song almost word for word.
As far as mass, positive behavior change is concerned, there are a lot of organizations out there trying to do good things, but behavior change just isn’t happening on a massive scale. Like Dr. Huberman said, sometimes it would seem that people don’t put two and two together, that there are too many nodes of separation between one action and the long-term consequence of that action, either to yourself or other people, or even society. Obviously, now there’s a lot of controversy about pandemic response, which was a massive exemplar for mass behavior change as a result of… well, that’s a big rabbit hole to discuss…. The Milgram experiment comes to mind.
Pessimistically thinking, are our human brains just not geared to think about the long-term consequences of behavior? Or is the immediate reward too difficult to compete with?
Dr. Lustig brought up modeling the behavior as another factor to inspire behavior change in people, such as banning diet sodas in hospitals, if I remember correctly. I would agree that, to an extent, other humans modeling behavior is a good avenue to go through, and the more humans, the better so that the fear of ostracism for not engaging in a certain behavior while in a certain community is better triggered —sorry to get a little bit of dark psychology here; if there’s anything we all learned from the pandemic, it is that people do crazy things when they’re in a state of fear, including fear of being ostracized when everybody is being told to do one thing and you yourself are the lone nail standing out waiting to be hammered down. I hate to think of fear as the only solution, but it’s such a driver for behavior change. Then again, is it that there is no fear of the consequence because most people view the consequence as being years or decades down the line? Too many nodes of separation? I guess if we could show people a mirror of what their health will be like down the line if they continue with their behavior, that might be a good motivator… maybe?
Continuing the discussion of personal accountability, to take a little bit of personal responsibility away from people, if I think about how many chemicals there are in the environment that can be impacting the average person’s intelligence or just capacity for critical thinking, or capacity for thinking of long-term consequences, I do wonder the degree to which the average person has these capabilities impaired because of ultra-processed food consumption. You know what I mean? So the very food that is being consumed and is resulting in negative effects on decision-making processes that only result in more of the same self-destructive behavior. I did find a study, published last year, that the consumption of ultra-processed food was associated with cognitive decline [1].
Personally, I get that there’s a lot of corruption everywhere. And so I appreciate Dr. Lustig’s honesty about his own attitude regarding big food and big Pharma (I thought it was hilarious that he admitted to being a conspiracy theorist), with evidence to back up his attitudes. I thought it was hilarious how he said, “do you wanna go there?” when getting near these touchy topics. Following the work of organizations like Children’s Health Defense myself, I am no stranger to such criticisms.
Autism Implications
Oh gosh, where do I even begin with this one? This episode has such enormous implications for the autism field as far as nutrition, diet, and brain and gut health are concerned.
I guess this is the section where we’re gonna have to touch on the topic of insulin because Dr. Lustig’s comments reminded me a lot about an old book I found titled “Food and Behavior: A Natural Connection.” Although this is certainly not my area of expertise, the author of that talks about the consumption of sugar and its relationship to hypoglycemia, discussing some research between mental illness and hypoglycemia. Research is discussed regarding the majority of alcoholics being hypoglycemic.
Touching upon autism and behaviors that may be experienced by parents of children or adults on the autism spectrum, the relationship between hypoglycemia and aggressive behavior is discussed. The impairment of certain cognitive processes that would tell a person that aggressive behavior is not appropriate due to hypoglycemia is discussed. The book was published in 2004, so I’m sure it’s quite outdated, but it’s certainly sparked an interest enough for me to consider the impact of nutrition on human behavior, especially within the context of autism services, such as ABA speech, and OT, for many children Full benefits may not be derived from due to aggressive behaviors toward others, or toward themselves in the form of self-injurious behaviors. And not that sugar is the only culprit, but it adds a good puzzle piece to the whole picture.
Many children with autism experience difficulties trying a wide variety of foods, often preferring sugary, or carby-crunchy snacks over healthy nutritious food—admittedly this isn’t just children with autism, although autism diagnoses may come with additional behavioral rigidity when it comes to food selection. I’ve witnessed a lot of battles between parents and their children with autism on the matter. Then, when we think about the impact of those foods on the microbiome, as well as brain development, the situation just becomes even messier and looks rather morbid.
My final comments on the autism implications of this great interview are a study that found ultra-processed food consumption during pregnancy being related to oxidative stress [2] and another study that found those with autism had shorter telomeres as well as higher oxidative stress markers [3]. Although I have not yet dug into a ton of research regarding telomeres, apparently they are related to the degree to which chromosomes break down and/or fuse with other chromosomes, and across the lifespan they become shorter. Within the greater context of autism and oxidative stress [4, 5], as well as other research that shows that telomere length can increase when a combination of lifestyle improvement methods are employed (i.e., diet high in whole foods, plant-based protein, fruits, vegetables, unrefined grains, and legumes; moderate aerobic exercise; stress management; and increased social support -although the authors indicated they don’t prove causation) [6], the consumption of ultra-processed food during both pregnancy, early infancy, or later infancy is concerning due to various other environmental factors associated with autism whose cumulative impact (e.g., what is the impact of Ultra Processed Food Consumption, plus air pollution, plus pesticide exposure, etc.) we do not yet know as far as susceptible time periods for the developing child.
Thanks for the lovely episode.
Autism Librarian
Other notes:
Dr. Lusting notes there’s an 8-year longevity tax for eating ultra-processed food every day; referencing Japan’s mean age of death is 88 compared to the USA’s mean age of death being 80. What other factors account for this difference though? Surely Ultra Processed Food consumption is just one factor…
Mitochondrial Function: If one is inhibiting mitochondrial function, a calorie is not a calorie. No study shows that cutting calories as a weight loss method actually works.
The 4 Prerequsites of Personal Responsibility
- Knowledge: to make better decisions
- Access: to alternatives
- Affordability: we can’t afford the choice because healthcare costs are so high
- Externalities: that one’s choice can’t hurt anyone else
P.S. I should bring blueberries if I meet Dr. Huberman.
References
- Gomes Gonçalves N, Vidal Ferreira N, Khandpur N, et al. Association Between Consumption of Ultraprocessed Foods and Cognitive Decline. JAMA Neurol. 2023;80(2):142–150. doi:10.1001/jamaneurol.2022.4397
- Rodríguez-Cano, A. M., González-Ludlow, I., Suárez-Rico, B. V., Montoya-Estrada, A., Piña-Ramírez, O., Parra-Hernández, S. B., Reyes-Muñoz, E., Estrada-Gutierrez, G., Calzada-Mendoza, C. C., & Perichart-Perera, O. (2022). Ultra-Processed Food Consumption during Pregnancy and Its Association with Maternal Oxidative Stress Markers. Antioxidants (Basel, Switzerland), 11(7), 1415. https://doi.org/10.3390/antiox11071415
- Zhang, T., Sun, Y., Wei, J., Zhao, G., Hao, W., Lv, Z., Chen, X., Liu, Y., & Wei, F. (2023). Shorter telomere length in children with autism spectrum disorder is associated with oxidative stress. Frontiers in psychiatry, 14, 1209638. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1209638
- Liu, X., Lin, J., Zhang, H., Khan, N. U., Zhang, J., Tang, X., Cao, X., & Shen, L. (2022). Oxidative Stress in Autism Spectrum Disorder-Current Progress of Mechanisms and Biomarkers. Frontiers in psychiatry, 13, 813304. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2022.813304
- Usui, N.; Kobayashi, H.; Shimada, S. Neuroinflammation and Oxidative Stress in the Pathogenesis of Autism Spectrum Disorder. Int. J. Mol. Sci. 2023, 24, 5487. https://doi.org/10.3390/ijms24065487
- Ornish, D., Lin, J., Chan, J. M., Epel, E., Kemp, C., Weidner, G., Marlin, R., Frenda, S. J., Magbanua, M. J. M., Daubenmier, J., Estay, I., Hills, N. K., Chainani-Wu, N., Carroll, P. R., & Blackburn, E. H. (2013). Effect of comprehensive lifestyle changes on telomerase activity and telomere length in men with biopsy-proven low-risk prostate cancer: 5-year follow-up of a descriptive pilot study. The Lancet. Oncology, 14(11), 1112–1120. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1470-2045(13)70366-8
The Causes of Autism 